Arlo McKinley Q&A with Jay
Art by Isaac Denton
There is a flower on this planet that takes 8 decades to bloom. At which time, the “Queen of the Andes” graces this world with small, vivid splashes of white petals that surround buds which are capped in a deep, burnt orange hue. This lasts only for a matter of days or weeks. Then, rather unceremoniously, it withers and dies. Eventually the plant is swallowed whole by the same earth from which it was born. There is a lesson to be learned by analyzing this process. Beauty is fleeting. We must savor it while we are in its midst. Blink, and you’ll miss it. I use this analogy because it seems fitting as it pertains to the music of this week’s guest. Arlo Mckinley released his debut record, “Arlo Mckinley and The Lonesome Sound”, in 2014. A crushing and heartfelt debut that perfectly captured a sense of vulnerability that few albums before or since ever could. Then, just as quickly as he had arrived, he seemingly walked away…
I discovered the music of Arlo Mckinley in 2015. Roughly a year after his first record was released and about a year into his sabbatical. At the time, I was awe struck by the sincerity conveyed in his music. I remain so to this very day. But as a result of his disappearance from the scene (for the most part), his music and career were shrouded in mystery as far I was concerned. Every few months or so, I would revisit his first record and marvel at its brilliance. I would go down the Google rabbit hole to see if there were any recent happenings or signs of creative resuscitation. My fear was that I had missed the prime of this elusive artist. That I had missed the splashes of sound and emotion which he had to give to this world as they were happening. Then, in June of 2020, one of these searches actually led me to a definitive answer. An answer that I had been seeking for over 5 years of my life. Arlo Mckinley had signed with Oh Boy Records and a new album was imminent.
On Thursday, the 13th day of August 2020, I stayed up late for the release of “Die Midwestern”. The long-rumored and often-delayed follow-up to his 2014 debut. I was like a kid on Christmas morning, eager to receive this gift. If I’m being honest, I believed that there was no way this new release could carry the weight of its predecessor. I quickly discovered that this was false. I listened to it straight through. After doing so, I was convinced that what I had just heard not only lived up to the record that preceded it, but surpassed in a multitude of ways. I hadn’t missed it after all. I was bearing witness to an artist in peak form, and I was paying enough attention to appreciate it in real time. That, my friends, is a great place to be. Arlo Mckinley had given us heart wrenching, yet somehow hopeful songs in 2014. What we received this time around was more of the same, only this time it was more nuanced. There were devastating songs that matched the brutally honest songwriting highlighted in his debut, to be clear. There were also songs cloaked in metaphor, that challenged listeners and showed the true depth of Arlo’s wordsmanship.
Anyone that follows me on twitter, in particular, knows my feelings on Arlo Mckinley. I believe him to be one of the greatest musical artists of our time. An artist capable of channeling pure emotion and gaining a listeners empathy using nothing more than his experiences translated into song. It’s one thing for a songwriter to pull this off once or twice over the course of their career. What sets Mckinley apart is that he is able to achieve this feat with striking consistency. When I received word that he was actually willing to speak to me on the record, and break through the wall of myth that I had built in my own mind… I relished the opportunity. I hope you enjoy this conversation as much as I did. Even if all that you do is take the time to read this introduction, I implore you to appreciate the beauty of his art while the world is graced with it. Don’t blink.
I guess to start things out, I know you were born and raised in Cincinnati, Ohio. I’ve heard you speak of that city with great affection. What was it like growing up there, and what keeps you there?
I don’t know, I ask myself all the time what it is that keeps me there. At the end of the day, I’d say it just the people more than anything. The people I’ve connected with over the years, and the friends I’ve made. For the most part I’ve had the the same core of friends since I was maybe 13-14 years old. I met most of them in the punk, hardcore, metal scene there. It’s the people I’m comfortable being around, and it’s the place that I’m most comfortable really. Growing up there was like growing up in any other Midwestern city I suppose. It’s funny. People hear “Ohio” and they think of the Midwest. But Cincinnati is in southern Ohio. You’re literally like 5 minutes from Kentucky.
Yeah, you can pretty much throw a rock from Cincinnati and hit Kentucky haha!
Oh 100%! I’ve spent a lot of my time in Northern Kentucky and I don’t know, growing up in Cincinnati I had pretty much the same life as I would’ve had if I’d grown up in Radcliff, Kentucky if my grandparents wouldn’t have moved to Cincinnati. I grew up in a religious home, and that’s where music came in was Church originally. But I often wonder what keeps me in Cincinnati. Even some of the people I love have moved away. My two brothers and my dad are still there but lots of family that I had there have passed away or moved. It’s still my Comfort zone. Also, I’m in Nashville right now, and it’s only 3 hours away from home. Everywhere I’m needed at this point in my life is in close proximity to Cincinnati. It gives me the opportunity to be involved with everything here in Nashville for example, but I don’t have to stay here. I can come and go. But I guess to answer that question, I’d say that I think I could get by most anywhere, as long as there are people I trust and people that I feel have my best interest at heart there. Cincinnati is that place for me.
Also, in Cincinnati, you are so close to that Appalachian scene that seems to support you so much. It’s pretty awesome that you have that support network so close by as well.
Yeah like West Virginia, and all the Whizzbang guys. Those are the guys that have helped me the most in my career probably, and they’re so close that I can just go there and hang, and its easy. Things have changed so much. There used to be a time where you had to move to Nashville or L.A. or something crazy if you wanted to make it in music. Maybe you can be discovered easier in some of those places, but I never understood why you would move to a place where everyone is trying to do the same thing. In Cincinnati, I can’t easily think of ten people that are trying to do the same thing that I am. In a place like Nashville, everyone is hustlin’ to do the same thing and I think it becomes more of a competition. You don’t get as much support from each other, and I think that would be hard for me personally to survive in that type of environment.
I agree with to an extent, but the type of music that you make is not the shit they’re cranking out in Nashville man! I think It would stand out wherever you set up shop. I’ve got friends all over the country and they are fans of yours. Your music is relatable for a myriad of reasons. I’m a believer dude. The cream always rises to the top.
Well, I appreciate that man.
Absolutely. You mentioned that you started dabbling in music at church? How did your musical journey really get started?
The first time I started singing in front of anyone was at church. I was probably around 9 years old. It was a little Baptist church. You could probably fit 50 people in there. Tiny place! I don’t know how, but my Aunt knew that I could sing and she’s the one that really pushed me to do it. I did that for a while and that’s really where I realized that I enjoyed singing, and I enjoyed bringing emotion out of people through my singing. Then from there I got into the punk scene pretty early. I have two brothers and I’m the youngest of the three. They’d always bring me records and it was stuff that I just wasn’t seeing on MTV. Really, I think I was lucky to be the youngest because by that point my parents had kind of already gone through everything, you know, with my two older brothers and since they were so embedded in that scene, my parents really trusted in them to make sure I’d be okay to go and pursue the same. I remember when I was maybe 14 years old and sneaking into this spot that was 21 and up to see 7 Seconds. My brothers would take me to these places, and they knew that a part of the mission was just getting me in somehow haha! We’d have no idea how we were gonna pull it off and I remember being maybe 15 and a friend of mine that looked absolutely nothing like me whatsoever gave me his ID. I looked like a little kid, and I walked up and showed this adults ID and it actually worked and I thought “I fucking love this.” Haha it was great. From that punk scene I just met other people that were into the same and we just wanted to be in a punk band or a metal band or whatever. I remember meeting up with a couple guys that lived in my neighborhood and that was probably the first band that any of us had tried to start. None of us even knew how to play anything at all. I always wanted to be a drummer, which was the weirdest thing looking back.
No Shit?!
Yeah man! I mean I knew I could sing, and that was cool, but I just wanted to be a drummer. The drums were the first instrument that I played. Haha man I don’t know that I’ve ever said that in an interview. My parents bought me a drum set from one of my brothers friends. It only took maybe a week for my parents to realize that they were NOT going to have a drummer in the house.
Haha yeah that was a horrible idea!
They figured that out quickly! But that was also the same time that I met those other kids in my neighborhood, and I let them know that I had to get these drums out of my house. Those were the kids that I started my first band with, if you want call us a band. Nothing ever came of it really. But it was in that first band that I think I became really passionate about playing and performing music. From there, it was a series of small bands in my hometown. Somehow a band from Northern Cincinnati heard about me and gave me a call. They said that they’d lost their singer and asked me to try out. That was the first time I was ever around real musicians. I was thinking “These guys can really play their instruments and all I have to do is sing.” I was writing songs about like “Fuck the system!” and I was this punk kid that had no idea what “The System” even was! But It all ties together. By playing shows with that band, I started meeting people from Northern Kentucky. Maybe when I was 16-17 years old, I ended up connecting with one of my best friends in the world, Jeremy Pinnell. He and I actually had some friends that didn’t like each other. We called each other and just talked and clarified that we weren’t involved in whatever bullshit rivalry our friends had and he asked me if I’d be interested in singing in a band with him. From there on, Music has been pretty much a constant in my life. Jeremy and another friend of ours, Cameron, would sit on the back of his truck and play these incredible songs that Jeremy was writing. It wasn’t the music that I was playing at the time, but my dad had this awesome country and old bluegrass record collection, so I had listened to that type of music a lot growing up. I would hear the songs that Jeremy was writing and man… I was just amazed.
Oh dude, Jeremy Pinnell is the truth. Such a talented guy.
He’s one of the best… He’s probably the best songwriter I’ve ever had the chance really sit and watch work. To this day I give him so much credit. Being in that band (The Great Depression) with him was amazing. I paid so much attention to what was doing. I mean we were young. I look back on it now and I’m surprised that he and I are still alive to be honest with you. I think he would say the same thing. We just went through so much shit together. It’s just crazy that were both in the situations that we are now. Still making music.
I watched the album release show for “Die Midwestern” and you brought him out to play a couple of songs from your old band, The Great Depression, and it was awesome. You also brought out David Faul for a couple of songs that night. How did you come to know David?
I probably met David Faul initially in 2013-2014. Right around when my first record was released. I had heard him play at one of the spots in town, and at first that was really it. We’d see one another in passing at shows, but I could just tell how talented he was. I called him kind of out of the blue to see if he’d like to play a residency with me. At the time he said that he wasn’t really playing music anymore. That just triggered something in me. I just believed in what that dude was doing. Our little music scene lacked sincerity I think, and what he was doing was so sincere. So really quickly we started talking pretty much daily. I just kept telling him that he could not give up music. I think it’s what he’s made to do. I asked him if he’d be interested in playing keys again. He’s actually a super good guitar player as well. But I needed a keyboard player, and it took a few months for me to talk him into coming on board with me. But then what he and I started doing, it wasn’t like he was joining the band. It was more like we were starting our own project in a way. Jeremy and David are the only two people that I’ve ever connected with musically like that.
Is there any chance that someday you could collaborate with either of those guys on a future project?
Yes. Actually, Dave is playing some shows with me this month. They asked me to play some solo shows, and I don’t know man… I just don’t like playing solo. It’s just not for me. So, I asked Dave and my steel player if they’d like to join. It’ll be a good vibe with the three of us.
Let’s discuss the first album. There’s a lot of mystique surrounding “Arlo Mckinley and The Lonesome Sound” in my opinion. I’ve read that it was recorded live for the most part, and that you pretty much met the band that played on it the same day you recorded it? Help me separate fact from fiction.
Actually, I met most of them about a week or two before we recorded. Tyler, my bass player has been with from the very beginning. We practiced once, the week before we recorded the album. We went to the Southgate House and recorded the album live. We just did maybe 3 takes on each song. At the time we weren’t really like a fulltime band or anything. That record made us a fulltime band for a while. Pretty much, I just wanted to make that record to document those songs from a little time period that I was going through. I had no idea that it was going to turn into what it has now become. This really wasn’t my intention at that time.
That album was released in 2014, so I’m guessing it was recorded in 2013? How old were those songs when you recorded them? Were these songs that you had been sitting on for a long time?
Those songs were all pretty fresh at the time. I think I showed up to that recording session with one brand new song, which I think was “Waiting for Wild Horses”. The rest were songs that I’d written in the previous year about a situation I was in as I was writing them. It’s weird to listen to now because those songs were written about my life at that time, and a situation that was quite controlling.
What I love about that record is… Just think about how the musical landscape has changed in the last 7 years. Whether you knew it or not, you were making a timeless record. I mean it still resonates with people and I think it will continue to do so as the years progress. The songs are so personal though. Is It hard to get on stage, sing those songs, and be that vulnerable in front of a live crowd?
Well, now it just kinda comes with the territory. I know that I have to get out there and sing these songs in front of people. That’s just a part of it. At this point that doesn’t really bother me. I don’t get nervous about shows or anything. There may have been a time where I did get nervous, but this is all I’ve really done for a few years now, so the nervousness has kind of gone away.
One thing that I’ve always wondered is despite that your first records reception, you kind of disappeared for a while after its release. What lead to that hiatus?
I was trying to it figure out. I don’t know… There were times after that record was released that I pretty much thought that was it for me as a musician. I thought I’d said what I needed to say. When I recorded that record, that’s all I really wanted. I just wanted to have those songs documented. After that album, I met Tyler Childers and Byron Roberts, and Ian from Whizzbang. Guys from Eastern Kentucky and West Virginia. They kinda knew that I was stepping away, I guess. I’d come around once in a while and play a show and then I’d step away again. I wasn’t sure that it was something that I wanted to put my time into until maybe 2017. I was just figuring it out. I’d play shows if we were asked, but I wasn’t going out of my way to book shows or anything. Not really knowing if I had much else to say, really, is what I think it came down to.
Damn. That blows my mind man. How close were you to actually walking away from music at that time?
Oh, that was a real possibility. Actually, it was the reality for a moment. I was kinda done. I was a little older, and I just didn’t see much more left to do. It was never really about making a career or anything out of music at that point. It took a couple conversations with Tyler Childers and Byron Roberts. They really thought I should think it through and that I had more in me to put out there. If it weren’t for those conversations, then we probably wouldn’t be speaking now. Luckily everything just happened to work out the way it did.
“Die Midwestern”. It was a 6 year wait for that album. Man, I stayed awake until midnight for that record drop, just so I could hear it as soon as it was released. I knew about halfway through that it was one of the best albums I’d ever heard.
Thanks man!
Shit. Don’t thank me dude. Thank you for the songs. One thing I’ve often wondered though…Your music over the course of both records, deals with a couple of overriding themes consistently. Love and Addiction. Both of which are things that most folks can relate to in one way or another. I think that this is why your music really resonates and strikes a chord with a lot of listeners. Do you do this consciously? Or is songwriting more of an organic process for you?
It’s a little bit of both, sometimes. I think the songs about like, addiction and all that, kind of come along when certain situations are going on in my life. It really just depends on where I’m at personally. I’ve never been like, “Today I’m gonna write a song about addiction.”, or anything thought out like that really. I don’t know. The next record could just be about how happy I am.
I hope it is haha!
Yeah man! It really just depends on how I’m livin’. It goes day to day. If that day happens to be spent thinking about one thing or another, then if it produces a song, that’s what the song will be about.
I hear you… John Moreland and yourself, are my favorite songwriters. I think the reason for this is that both of you can write a song about some of the saddest shit… But even in the darkest of moments, you both manage to sprinkle some hope in there for us. If that makes any sense?
Yeah, that makes perfect sense. I don’t think they’re sad songs, really. I think they’re hopeful songs. I never leave it on a sad note, I don’t think. It’s always about like, trying to make the situation better.
Exactly!... So, to get back on task, “Die Midwestern” was delayed a couple of times. What was cause of the delays?
Okay so I’d actually recorded it… we have another whole version of “Die Midwestern” that I’d recorded with the band in Cincinnati. Some of the songs aren’t the same, but a lot of them are. Those songs started floating around to other people and It was kind of like a demo I guess, in a way. Everyone really wanted to pull the trigger and put it out there, but after I hooked up with Ian at Whizzbang and we found out that Oh Boy Records had a possible interest in signing me I just wanted to hold off until we figured all of that out. Once Oh Boy signed me I decided to record it again and do some things differently.
How different was your bands lineup on “Die Midwestern” when compared to the lineup you used on “Arlo Mckinley and The Lonesome Sound”?
I’d say maybe 8 out of 10 were the same. There were only a couple of people that worked on the first record that didn’t make it to the second one.
Have you been pretty happy with the reception that the record has received?
Oh man. Very much so. It’s been great.
With all the craziness of 2020, are you planning to properly tour that record at all once things open back up? Or is it onto the next project?
As far as touring the record, I don’t know… A lot of people are already familiar with those songs. We may tour it a little, but we’ve already got the wheels rolling on the next one.
So, folks probably shouldn’t expect a 6 year wait this time around?
No! I think people are going to be surprised with what’s coming for sure. I’ve already been down to Memphis and recorded the demos for the next record, actually. It’s pretty cool man. Everything is going just the way I’d like it to. I’m excited for it.
Nice! With your recent success, was there ever a singular moment when all of it kind of came into focus? A moment when you said to yourself “Wow, I may really be onto something.”?
I think I always knew that if I put the time into it, that I had the talent to be successful, as far as singing goes. It’s just what I’ve always done, so I was confident in that. But that kind of moment for me when I realized that my music career could really be something was probably when the “Bag of Pills” video reached a million views. That’s when I thought “Oh, people are actually into this.” I think I knew then that maybe I was onto something.
As far as what’s happening now, I understand that you’ve recorded some OurVinyl Sessions. My first exposure to Tyler Childers was his OurVinyl Sessions, and the same with Morgan Wade. I think that could bring a lot of new ears to your music! How many songs did you record with them and when can we expect to see and hear those?
There’s 4 of them in total. “The Hurtin’s Done” will be the first to be released and I think it drops on April 7. It was a very cool experience. I got to see the video for “The Hurtin’s Done” the other day and I’m really happy with how it turned out! We picked 2 songs from each record that I’ve released. I think that these sessions may bring some of my new fans back to my old record, which is part of the mission, I think. To introduce that first record to people that may not even know about it. I’m really excited for these to be released.
Well Arlo, I want to thank you for taking the time to speak with me and giving our readers a chance to get to know you, man. Hopefully everyone can catch a show this year and help spread the word about your music.
Alright brother! Thanks a lot! I appreciate you man.